Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

topic posted Sun, March 20, 2005 - 1:24 PM by  ryan
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I just picked up a collection of his short fiction from the library and I have to say I'm amazed the man isn't better known. His style is so much more origional than anything else Beat I've read. He sees things like the maddest poet, one thing flowing into the next. he sees fluid motion everywhere around him. He sees the past as it ties into the present as it ties into the future.

Maybe he's a little thick for a lot of people. He's the heaviest of all the beats I've read. Very hard to follow sometimes. Very very abstact. The opposite of Bukowski or Brautigan.

Also I think a lot of people are turned off by the heavy racial tone of his work. Every word influenced by the pain of being a black man in america. Especially after the assasination of Malcom X, he got mad, real mad. Can you blame him though? All that emotion makes for some nice words. Strong words.
posted by:
ryan
Canada
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  • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

    Sun, March 20, 2005 - 4:56 PM
    what do you mean not better known, that cat got nominated as poet laureate of New Jersey, wrote a poem for the event and had the crowh stripped from his halo glow head. and if you think his shit runs deep, check out bob kaufman. while being flippant and whimsical in his sense of humor, he is universally tapped into to some way gone shit. also, pick up the last poets, primus st. john, hayden carruth, gil scot-heron, and kenneth patchen's picture poems. read leroi's preface to a twenty volume suicide note. listen to coltrane live at birdland, drink red roses and smell the wine.
    • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

      Tue, April 19, 2005 - 6:27 AM
      Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones is one of the handful of poets identified with the Beats, indeed, any part of the American counterculture who regularly appears in high school anthologies. His music criticism (which he mostly wrote as LeRoi Jones) is considered essential reading if you are interested in jazz and blues.

      Few writers are better known than he.

      It also doesn't hurt that he deliberately courts controversy.

      P.S. He wasn't "nominated" as Poet Laureate of New Jersey; he _was_ the Poet Laureate of New Jersey and proceded to shoot himself in the foot whilst it was still in his mouth soon after being awarded the position and thus ensuring that there would be no more poet laureates of New Jersey.
      • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

        Tue, April 19, 2005 - 1:26 PM
        Thanks for the history, Ian. I saw Mr. Baraka read twice. Once whilst barely out of college in the late '80s and once while performing at the same jazz festival in Fiinland 4 years ago (Pharoah Sanders was also on the bill). Both times Baraka got constantly heckeled from the audience by a crackpot (but not during his amazing show with band in Finland, only during his library reading at the same event). All I could offer backstage during our brief encounter when he asked me, "what's up?" were the profound lines, "not much, what about you?" Sheess, there went another opportunity.
      • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

        Tue, April 19, 2005 - 7:57 PM
        he did not shoot anything, if any shooting was done it was by the arts board of new jersey, who claims baraka to be anti-semetic based upon two lines from a poem about 9/11.

        and look up nominated.
        • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

          Wed, April 20, 2005 - 7:30 AM
          Having read "Somebody Blew Up America" when it was first published in Long Shot at least a year before it came to the attention of New Jersey politicians and actually researching some of the claims and insinuations he made in the poem, as well as the evasions Baraka and his defenders made regarding those particular lines when the poem became better known, I do not think it unfair to label those particular lines as having antisemitic content. That Baraka and his apologists refuse to acknowledge this is sheer intellectual dishonesty-- shooting off one's mouth in such a public manner and then claiming that your rights are being violated when you receive justified criticism is "shooting oneself in the foot while it is still in your mouth" in my book.

          Though a long time fan of Baraka/Jone's work, I have to say that while he continues to be a brilliant live performer, the quality of the work he has published in recent years has gone down hill, and lacks the originality, depth, and craft of his earlier work.

          "Nominated" is customarily used to refer to the process of designating a candidate who must then be vetted by election or other means. The point is that Baraka actually was Poet Laureate and not merely a candidate for the job.
          • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

            Thu, April 21, 2005 - 3:07 PM
            being that the position of laureate is an honor, not an appointed office attained by election from a pool of representatives of segregate committees, then nominate was used in it's absolute proper form.
            • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

              Thu, April 21, 2005 - 10:50 PM
              On this issue of whether we ought use the word "nominate" or not: I hope we can agree to disagree here.
              • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

                Fri, May 6, 2005 - 11:51 PM
                I've seen Amiri Baraka read his poetry, and I've seen him give an inspiring lecture to college students without his poetry. I was impressed at his awareness of self, his disciplined presence. I agree with the wrriter who suggests a lot of Baraka's poetry is powerful in a way that doesn't really "sing" with his delivery.

                I don't think the man can be faulted (I do realize the critique was not put out as a 'fault') for his writing being less compelling now than it once was: he is a lot older. That would be kinda like expecting the magic of his contemporary Bob Dylan's "songs" to be as great now as they were in the late '60's. There just ain't the social resonating context -- I believe this reflects on all of us, not just our reknowned poets.

                I was moved reading the enthused reference to Bob Kaufman's work. Here is an accomplished poet who decided to spend a long time being totally mute on purpose -- his devotion shows in his work.

                Do you know that up to his death, he could 'recite' some of his complex, lengthy, early work from memory? Few of us "youngers" noticed; his voice was very soft and hard to hear by the time I met him in the mid-80's.

                I don't necessarily agree that Baraka was a Beat poet. Wondering what he'd say about this? Seems to me (whatever my memory's worth?) Baraka was a Vietman era/ Black Pride era public figure. Kaufman, however, was great during the period of the Beats.

                It disturbs me that some Commission, for whatever their probably-fine reasons, can quash the voice of a poet. What audacity. Especially if it's true that the poem that caused this commotion was already in the public realm? That's just fucked up! "Let's hear it for pasteurized poetry." They should've kept their (ingorant?) yaps shut and allowed any dialogue to happen by itself, outside of bureaucracy. This is what we have to face as creatives.
                • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

                  Sat, May 7, 2005 - 6:11 AM
                  > I don't necessarily agree that
                  > Baraka was a Beat poet. Wondering
                  > what he'd say about this? Seems to
                  > me (whatever my memory's worth?)
                  > Baraka was a Vietman era/ Black
                  > Pride era public figure.

                  Previously, he had been known as LeRoi Jones and was closely associated with the Beat Scene: reading together, publishing in the same places, socializing together, writing letters back and forth, etc. Jones changed his name to Baraka, divorced his Jewish wife, and became a founding member of the Black Arts Movement.

                  Keep in mind that many Beat generation poets were very much identified with the counter culture of the Vietnam era: Allen Ginsberg, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Michael McLure, Richard Brautigan, et cetera.

                  I'm not arguing that Baraka's recent work does not resonnate: clearly, it does-- otherwise we wouldn't be debating. I am arguing that he is not attempting to write at the same level of craft and skill that he once did: The writing has, as of late, lacked the artistry it once had, and seems to only get published in literary magazines because Amiri Baraka is a legend whose name looks good on the table of contents of any journal and will guarrantee a certain boost in sales. He's certainly not being published based on quality.

                  Reknown artists are often capable of creating their best work late in their career, but often, they have to fight against the nostalgia of their audiences who discovered the genius through earlier works.

                  > It disturbs me that some
                  > Commission, [...] can
                  > quash the voice of a poet.

                  I'm just going to recount the events. I argued my point in another thread.

                  Essentially, Baraka was poet laureate of New Jersey, the state in which he resides. This is a position with a stipend of $20,000 per year (if I recall correctly.) It was felt by many (including myself) that certain lines of "Somebody Blew Up America" amounted to antisemitic conspiracy theorizing and when asked about those lines, Baraka did not convince those who viewed it as antisemitic that it was anything else. So the questions for the New Jersey legislature was "Do we have an avowed racist as the official poet for our state? Do we want to have him on the payroll?" Clearly, when he was appointed, none of his other political leanings were sufficient to disqualify his nomination-- it was the issue of antisemitism. They asked him to step down. He wouldn't. Then, as the fight deadlocked, the legislature decided just to eliminate the position altogether.

                  Baraka was not quashed. He is now, just as before, one of America's most widely read poets. He is just not Poet Laureate of New Jersey.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

                    Thu, May 12, 2005 - 5:14 PM
                    it is a one time $10,000 award i believe.

                    and i have recent discussions with a friend who is a lover of poetry but a hater of the "beats". he tends to discount great works based simply upon a title given to a period of poetry. for laziness and simplicity i refer to all poets in the circle of ginsberg, kerouac, and burroughs to be beat. and that accounts for most american poetry from 1954-1969. of course there was bukowski and pinsky, but most others could be identified as beat even though ferlinghetti refuses to accept his beatness and claims to have been associated with the beats but not a beat. it is all so ridiculous. baraka is beat!

                    finally ian and i agree on something. i think?!?
          • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

            Wed, February 21, 2007 - 1:12 PM
            the use of the word "antisemitic" is really becoming a weak arguement to discredit anyone that raises questions or concerns about what is happening in the State of Israel. I would have everyone remember that both the Palestinian and Israelis are of "semitic" hertitage. We might also argue that Mr. Baraka (who is a mentor and elder to many poets of succeeding generations) could also be of "semitic" hertitage considering that he is of African descent and the roots of what is considered "Israel" can be tranced to the blood line of King Solomon and Queen Sheba which begins in Ethiopia (Amharic - Tigrinya).

            "In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם, translated as "name", Arabic: سام) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese and Tigrinya among others." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic
            • Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

              Fri, February 23, 2007 - 7:38 AM
              In response to your arguments:

              > the use of the word "antisemitic" is really becoming a weak
              > arguement to discredit anyone that raises questions or
              > concerns about what is happening in the State of Israel

              The claim that Baraka was merely raising questions or concerns about government policies in Israel is a weak argument. The claims Baraka makes in "Somebody Blew Up America" are a.) an antisemitic conspiracy theory, much like other antisemitic conspiracy theories; and b.) untrue.

              The "facts" that Baraka cited in that poem have been shown to be false over and over again, yet Baraka, to this day, insists that his conspiracy theory is the only logical conclusion (at least in an interview he gave to the New York Times as recently as a month ago.) This places him in the same camp as the American white-supremacist movement-- or at least stormfront.org

              He tells a deliberate lie that accuses an ethnic group of engaging in coordinated wrong-doing with no evidence. Were Baraka lacking in leftist, black-nationalist credentials and talking about any ethnic group but "the Jews", no one would hesitate to call him a "racist."

              I won't hesitate: Amiri Baraka wrote some good poems many years ago, he was probably kind to his friends and students, but still, Baraka is a racist.

              If you want well founded criticism of the Israeli government, you should be reading an Israeli newspaper instead of listening to Amiri Baraka-- try Ha'aretz or the Jerusalem Post.

              > remember that both the Palestinian and
              > Israelis are of "semitic" hertitage.

              The word, "antisemitism" was coined in the 19th century when European racists wanted to place their hatred of Jews upon some "scientific" basis instead of the theological basis that had been promoted by the Church. The European anti-Semites of the 19th and 20th centuries were not thinking of the Arabs and the Phoenicians, so to call racism against Arabs "anti-semitic" is to ignore the history and usage of the word.

              This is also why Christians whose bigotry against Jews is not racially based but theologically based call their position "Anti-Judaic."

              Arab bigotry against Jews is very well documented phenomena that goes back many centuries before-- and while its roots are in the religious institution of dhimma, in the 20th century it took within itself the components of European antisemitism-- to such a point that "antisemitism" is the proper name.

              > [Baraka] could also be of "semitic" hertitage considering that
              > he is of African descent and the roots of what is considered
              > "Israel" can be tranced to the blood line of King Solomon
              > and Queen Sheba which begins in Ethiopia (Amharic - Tigrinya).

              The bloodlne of Israel is generally traced back to the patriarch Ya'akov (also known as Yisrael) who was the grandson of Abram (who later changed his name to Abraham) who originated from Ur in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq.) The coupling of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba (ten or eleven centuries later) is how Judaism became the official religion of Sheba, and why there were Jews in Ethiopia until most of them fled to Israel in the 1980s to escape slavery and ethnic cleansing.

              (Of course, that's assuming you want to believe the Bible. If you are more scientifically minded, then DNA analysis of the Y chromosome indicates that today's Jews are Asiatic in origin and had a common male ancestor with today's Arabs about 4000 years ago-- coincidentally when Abraham is said to have had his two sons.)

              Baraka, as the descendent of Africans who were brought over to the Americas by way of the slave trade, would be of West African ancestry. Ethiopia is in East Africa. Anyone with even the slightest familiarity with Africa knows that these are radically different ethnic and cultural regions with very different histories.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Amiri Baraka/LeRoi Jones

    Wed, June 28, 2006 - 8:50 PM
    The movie adaptation of his play Dutchman sums up the hidden black rage now prevailent in Rap Music. STRONG medicine for a SICK culture, to be sure...

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